In episode three of Behind the Storyteller, we sat down with Michelle Garrett to discuss what it really takes to build trust, visibility and relevance in public relations today.
How do you stand out when attention is short, AI tools are everywhere and trust is harder to earn?
Her answer is refreshingly grounded: focus on relationships, execute well and never lose sight of the fundamentals.
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Earned media is coverage you don’t pay for - like news stories, interviews or expert quotes. You earn it by building real relationships with journalists and sharing insights that matter to their audience. It’s not advertising, and it’s not just posting on your own website. Earned media builds credibility because a trusted third party is talking about you.
Even with AI changing how people find information, trust still comes from people. Journalists and editors rely on sources they know and trust - not just what shows up in a tool. Michelle explains that when brands consistently share useful insights and credible experts, reporters come back to them. Over time, strong media relationships mean less cold pitching and more inbound requests. AI may shape content discovery, but it doesn’t replace credibility, relationships, or human judgment - and that’s why media relations still matter in modern PR.
Short answer: no.
Michelle warns that sending thousands of generic pitches can hurt your credibility and damage media relationships. Journalists can spot a copy-and-paste email right away. Instead, she recommends building a focused media list - around 20 to 25 relevant journalists in B2B and taking time to understand what they actually cover. Tailored, personalized pitches perform far better than volume-based outreach. In PR, quality always beats quantity.
Posting a strong piece of content on your website isn’t enough. If you want real PR impact, you have to promote it. Michelle suggests repurposing content into social posts, pitching it as a contributed article or tying it to industry trends and news. The goal is simple: don’t let good content sit on your blog. A smart content distribution strategy helps your message reach the right audience - and increases visibility across media channels.
Michelle believes writing is part of thinking. When brands rely too much on AI-generated content, they can lose their voice - and that hurts trust. Today’s audiences can spot generic, automated messaging. A clear and consistent brand voice helps you stand out and build credibility. As deepfakes and AI-generated content become more common, authenticity isn’t optional. Showing up in your own voice is what protects your reputation and strengthens long-term trust.
The best media relationships aren’t transactional. In strong PR–journalist relationships, you become a trusted source - not just someone sending pitches. Michelle explains that over time, reporters start reaching out to you for expert insights or customer references. That shift from chasing coverage to being asked for it - is real PR success. Trust, quick responses and understanding newsroom deadlines are what build lasting media relationships.
Often, yes.
Michelle says many organizations still see PR as just “getting coverage.” But public relations does much more than that. When companies understand how earned media builds credibility, improves search visibility and supports long-term brand authority, they start to see PR as a strategic investment - not just a one-off tactic.
Human talent still matters. AI tools can help with research and drafting, but they can’t replace relationships, strategic thinking or credibility. Strong PR professionals focus on the basics - clear messaging, consistent execution and trusted media relationships. In an AI-driven world, fundamentals are what set you apart.
Allen Murphy: Hi. Welcome to Behind the Storyteller: A Notified Podcast. This is the series where we take professionals from the worlds of IR and PR - or corporate storytellers and give them the mic to tell their stories. My name is Allen Murphy and I’m in the studio here with my co-host, Caroline Cullinan.
Caroline Cullinan: How's it going?
Allen Murphy: And Pat O'Rourke.
Pat O’Rourke: Hey, how are you?
Allen Murphy: And today, for our guest - or rather, our character for the story we’re going to tell - we’re joined virtually by Michelle Garrett. Michelle, welcome.
Michelle Garrett: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
Allen Murphy: Now, I know some of our audience may be familiar with you already. I believe you’ve participated in webinars with Notified in the past. But for those who haven’t caught those webinars, or maybe just need a bit of a refresher, could you share a little bit about yourself while you’re here today?
Michelle Garrett: Well, I’ve been working in PR communications throughout my career. I’m currently a consultant for B2B clients - a public relations consultant and a writer. I’ve written a book. I’m a speaker and I feel very strongly and passionate about what we do. And I’m watching all of the changes, just like everybody else probably is these days.
Allen Murphy: You’re like the third guest we’ve had who has written a book and I always get so excited because, selfishly, I’m a writer too. I’m always curious about how that fits into our respective careers. When was the book published?
Michelle Garrett: April of 2024.
Allen Murphy: Oh, so this is brand new then - relatively speaking.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. You’ll see it on the wall there. I try to make sure - because sometimes I’m reluctant to plug it too much - but it’s always there over my shoulder.
Allen Murphy: Oh, I’ll insist. Please plug it. I would love for the audience to hear the name of your book. This is a great opportunity and honestly, I’d love to hear more about it myself.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, it’s called B2B PR That Gets Results. It’s based on all of my years of experience working with clients in the B2B space. I feel like it is a lot of times and this is not to take anything away from B2C PR, but B2B PR is a little bit different. We focus a lot on trade publications and that’s where our clients’ audiences are often spending time. I feel like it gets neglected or overlooked.
So, I wanted to talk about everything that I’ve learned and know from experience and share that with others. I have a few people who follow me, and it just felt like the next natural step for me professionally.
Allen Murphy: It sounds like the kind of book you probably would have loved to have earlier in your career - something to learn from others’ experience in the B2B space.
Michelle Garrett: Yes, because I don’t think I really understood the difference early on. I still think there are people who may not fully understand that there is a difference. Some of the same principles apply to both, of course, but with B2B we’re focused more on companies as buyers.
Yes, there are individuals within those companies doing the buying, but the cycles are longer, the budgets are larger and it’s different. It’s not like launching a product and getting coverage once and then waiting a year. It’s thought leadership. It’s customer stories. It’s an ongoing effort to stay visible because buyers do so much of their own research now. You can’t just show up once and disappear. It has to be consistent.
Allen Murphy: Yeah. And before we move on, I’d love to get a bit more background. The three of us are here in the podcast studio in Chicago. Where are you joining us from today?
Michelle Garrett: I'm in Columbus, Ohio.
Allen Murphy: Oh, okay – so you’re a Midwesterner like us here in Chicago?
Michelle Garrett: Yes. I’m a native Ohioan, a native Midwesterner. I did live in the Bay Area for about seven years, though. I worked with a lot of tech companies and startups there and launched my consulting business while I was in the Bay Area.
Pat O’Rourke: Well, next time you either need to pick her up on the way to the studio, or we need to send a plane and get her here with us.
Allen Murphy: We would love that.
Pat O’Rourke: I keep angling for the Notified podcast budget to increase so we can bring more guests to Chicago.
Allen Murphy: The way we structure this podcast is that we treat each episode like a story. We spend the first part getting to know you - our character. But every story need conflict. So, this feels like a good moment to dive into a challenge or struggle you’ve faced in your career. Something we can unpack, understand what was at stake and share takeaways for the audience.
With that in mind, Michelle, what conflict do you think our listeners or viewers could learn from today?
Michelle Garrett: For me, one ongoing challenge has been media relations. I think it gets a lot of negative sentiment. People don’t always feel positive about it. By leaning into media relations for my clients, it’s helped me in my own career - and it’s been a benefit for clients too.
I worked at an agency before going out on my own and saw this firsthand. Not all agencies are the same, of course, but media relations is often given to the lowest person on the totem pole. It doesn’t always get the attention it deserves.
About ten years ago, I noticed other PR consultants leaning away from media relations altogether. And I thought, wait a minute - this is what clients want. They want to be seen in publications. Now, of course, we also have podcasts and newsletters and many other forms of media, but visibility still matters.
If you’re only providing strategy without execution, that can be an issue.
Allen Murphy: I’m curious if you have any theories as to why media relations is, in some cases, a bit of an afterthought - maybe for PR professionals, or maybe not taken as seriously as, at least in your opinion, it should be.
Michelle Garrett: I think my honest answer would be that people don't like to do it.
Allen Murphy: Okay, I get that.
Michelle Garrett: And I know you get that. But it’s a very important piece. Obviously, you need the strategy and the writing - you need foundational skills to get to that point, to be ready to do it. However, I feel like it’s not something that someone who’s very junior and just starting out should necessarily be responsible for on a client account.
Allen Murphy: Yeah. If that responsibility is just handed to the person lowest on the totem pole within the department, unless they have a passion for it or some experience, it feels a little risky to throw that onto someone who may not have the necessary background to handle it appropriately.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah and I continue to see that. For me, when I noticed this happening - I’d say probably ten, twelve, fifteen years ago - as a consultant, I thought, wow, okay. I have a journalism degree and writing is my first love. At one point, I leaned more into the writing side and I’m really glad I didn’t fully go that route. I still do a fair amount of writing for clients, but I focused on the media relations piece.
That not only helped me land clients of my own, but it also allowed me to work with consultants who were shying away from media relations. For me, it’s been a really important part of what I offer. And I still get a high from helping clients be seen - it really does make a difference. We see that now with search and especially AI-driven search. So, I think it’s really important.
Allen Murphy: Yeah. As you were saying that AI came to mind. With your experience over the years, you’ve seen media relations evolve so much over the last fifteen or twenty years - with the rise of social media and now AI growing exponentially as a way people find information. How have you seen AI affect your role, or the role of media relations in general?
Michelle Garrett: Well, I feel like it’s benefiting us in a way. PR has often been an afterthought for companies - like, “If we have the budget, we’ll do it,” or “If we have a product launch, we’ll do it.” But now, it really underscores the importance of having an ongoing, consistent PR effort, because that’s how you show up in AI-driven search.
I know some people think SEO isn’t important anymore. I still think it is. I do feel like we’re moving away from link building and what some people call digital PR - a term I’ve never really embraced, because I think we do so much more than just earn links for clients. So, there’s a lot of change happening.
Allen Murphy: More and more, both clients I’ve spoken with and guests on this podcast have highlighted that even if you don’t personally use AI day to day, millions of people do. It’s an important way people get information now, whether we like it or not. So being mindful of that and strategic about how you put information out there is becoming increasingly important - similar to how SEO evolved. It feels like the next phase of that.
Michelle Garrett: Yes. Things are changing, but I see a lot of people saying you need to throw out your entire PR playbook and do it a completely different way. I don’t think that’s true. The fundamentals of PR still matter for SEO and what I’ll call GEO or AEO - whatever acronym you want to use. It changes depending on the expert.
Even people I consider trusted experts don’t always know what to call it. It’s evolving. But it’s something PR pros need to follow. We need to stay informed by following sources, companies, experts and blogs so we can talk about it confidently with clients.
Many clients aren’t overly concerned about it yet, but I feel like I need to understand it so I can best serve them and speak knowledgeably when it comes up.
Allen Murphy: That also helps you kind of pivot as you need to, as the world evolves around it. Because like you said, I agree with you. I don't think that people should abandon their entire PR playbook in response to AI being on the rise. I think it's smart to know how and when to pivot and evolve your playbook. But I think throwing all your eggs in one basket is potentially a bit premature at this point. I mean, AI and language models like this have really only been around for a handful of years now. And if you were to completely abandon your old PR playbook and go straight into this, for all you know, that's going to completely change again within the next two or three years, in which case you're going to have to rebuild your entire playbook all from scratch once more and nobody wants to do that.
Michelle Garrett: No. But I think some people do advise that because it helps them sell and make money from advising clients to do that. So again, just be careful. I mean and I don't want to make any blanket statements because obviously every situation is different - every agency, every consultant, every business. But I would just say be careful about that because it is going to continue to change. I think focusing on the fundamentals is important. A lot of people just chase the shiny object, and they forget about the fundamentals and those are always going to matter. So, I don't think that there's ever going to be a time when we're going to see the importance of media relations go away staying out there, figuring out who your subject matter experts are and putting them in the spotlight. I don't think there's ever going to be a time when that isn't going to help us make progress and be important.
Pat O’Rourke: So yeah, it all feels supplemental rather than just being to your point - some people are just like, “Okay, let's just do this” to try to say, “Okay, well, let's make some more money. Here's the new thing. I'm going to sell this to you. I'm going to sell you how to do this.” But if you are using it as a supplement, if you're using your fundamentals, if you're doing the things that you normally do, you are helping to shape your narrative no matter what-whether it is the traditional sense of your brand identity or GEO, AEO. Kind of, what are these LLMs saying about your brand? If you are doing all of the fundamentals-you're putting out a press release, you're getting these stories written about you, you're putting these trusted experts out speaking about your organization-that's all going to let you shape what your narrative is, what ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini is spitting back out when people are asking about it. So, to that point, if you only go from one angle, you're missing out on all of those other pieces. So, you're 100% right, in my opinion. You know not that I’ll send you the receipt from the money you sent me earlier-but it really comes down to it being a supplement. And the foundation-it’s like riding a bike. It’s what we always say. If your foundation is strong, you're always going to be able to succeed. Same thing goes with media relations, public relations, any type of communications and storytelling. If you are building off this base of proven, effective tools - no matter what it is, whether AI eventually goes into something else, as the advent of the internet, social media and all of these things have happened already - everything has had to evolve and change and grow. But those fundamentals are still the fundamentals. Those are still the things that make the most sense and get you through the growth of all of these different aspects of what your job is now.
Allen Murphy: We had another guest at one time, and I am going to paraphrase-potentially butcher - what she said. But she was saying that regardless of how the tools, like AI and stuff, evolve, at the end of the day, you're still marketing toward people and it’s still people behind those tools that you need to keep in mind. So, like you were saying, having those fundamentals in mind with your PR strategy is still one of the most important things. And then just evolving with the tools and with the landscape is the way to move forward rather than fighting the way that the market is evolving.
Pat O’Rourke: Yeah. If you can market to people, you can market to computers, which these people are behind and getting their information from. So, you are still marketing to people at the end of the day, right?
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And I would add even further - just staying out there in front of your audience and talking, speaking in your own voice, writing in your own voice. Staying out there is important because now we see, of course, AI-generated fake videos, images. They can take your CEO and try to, you know-so it's really important for your audience to trust you. And to trust you, they need to see you and hear from you. So, I would say PR is just going to be experiencing a bit of a renaissance, in a way, because I feel like, you know, obviously I know it's important, but I hope that companies are really going to understand how and why it really matters for them to continually be focusing on that.
Allen Murphy: Yeah. And you said, making sure to continue to write and speak in your own voice. So many people are just punching in a prompt to an AI model and then copy and paste exactly what it says. But it loses that voice and when you lose that voice, in a lot of ways you can lose that sense of authenticity. And more and more people are getting savvy to that-where they can frequently tell if something was made solely by ChatGPT or if it was actually your thoughts, your emotions and your knowledge coming through onto the page. Yeah, I feel like more and more people are becoming wise to that the more they see from it.
Michelle Garrett: Thank goodness. I mean-
Allen Murphy: Yeah, exactly.
Michelle Garrett: I feel like we're giving up our writing and we're giving up our thinking-writing to me equally. And so, it's just-I mean, I don't even know sometimes how to organize what I think until I sit down and just get it all on the page. And then I can think through it, organize it and come out with something, you know, a written piece. But then also I can speak more clearly about whatever it is I just wrote about because it helped me kind of weed through everything that I was hearing and reading. So, it's critical thinking and man, I don't know, I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that's more important than it's ever been, if you know the history of time.
Allen Murphy: Absolutely. Yeah, I could not agree more with that one.
Pat O’Rourke: I will, because to your point, I didn't even think about-when you were talking about having your brand staying kind of front and center-I didn't even think about deep-fake videos for a CEO or things being created to damage a brand. I don't think we've really seen that as a thing so much yet. But with all of this, like with the AI videos that are getting put out and shared in lots of different situations, it's kind of crazy to see what's being done. And then that leads into-we've had conversations with other guests about crisis communications-that leads right into that. But if you are, exactly to your point, continually keeping your brand, your authenticity, your values, your story front and center, when things like that happen, you have much more of a defense. You have champions that are like, “That's not what they do. That's not what this person would say.” And then if there is more of a pushback-where if you don't put yourself and your brand front and center-something like that happens, who's going to know? Who's going to know whether or not that's actually accurate? And you're more likely to have people push back and say, “I don't know what this person normally says or what they feel or think.” And you're going to be in a much harder position to say, “Oh no, this is fake, this is fake,” and people aren't going to believe you in that respect. So, keeping yourself forward and being authentic really does make a lot of sense. And I'm sure it makes your job a little bit easier when it comes down to it. But hopefully more brands understand that and realize that before we end up in a situation like that.
Michelle Garrett: I hope so.
Allen Murphy: And Michelle, I want to kind of take it back just for a moment. When you were talking about the importance of media relations and how, for a lot of organizations, they may not prioritize that as much as they really should-if and when you do come across an organization where they do have that mindset, do you find there to be some resistance to adopting that and putting more effort into it? And if so, how do you handle that when consulting?
Michelle Garrett: Well, usually when clients come to me, that is probably the number one thing they're looking for, along with content.
Allen Murphy: Right. So, they're already looking forward to it by the time they're speaking with you.
Michelle Garrett: Probably. I mean, I have been in situations where I'm probably doing more writing of the content than pitching of the content. And in that case, I would have that conversation and let them know that, yes, okay, we have this content ready for your site, for LinkedIn, whatever it is, wherever they want to self-publish the content. So, I'm talking about owned content. Then I would say, well, there's more we can do with this, you know? Right? We can try it on their immediate site, we can pitch it as a contributed article, or we could turn it into a series of posts for social media. There are different options-we can do different things with it, right? So, we don't want to just develop the content, publish it on their site and have it sat there. Maybe people see it, maybe they don't. I mean, I'm sure there are stats about that and I'm sure I've probably cited someone somewhere who talks about how many people don't see your content once it's just on your site. Like, what else are you going to do with it? So, I feel like that's a conversation I have had with clients. Sometimes they're receptive, but sometimes they're very focused on one particular area they want to work with me on. And all you can do is try to have those conversations. Some clients don't have a crisis plan-back to that for a moment-which is something else I've mentioned. And they will almost look at you like, “What? Why would we need that?” So, it's just something that, once you develop trust with the client, they're more likely to listen to you and perhaps look to you for other services.
Allen Murphy: And I like what you were saying, too, about having a good piece of content and thinking, okay, yes, we could put it here and just hope that people get it, find it and read it. But if it's great content, it's ripe with opportunity to go out to such a wide range of channels and audiences and have a very proactive approach toward that when you have great content, I think, is a really widely missed opportunity for people who aren't taking media relations as seriously as maybe they should.
Michelle Garrett: I think people just don't understand what PR is and what PR pros do. Sometimes I feel like there's some mystique around it. Sometimes it's like, well, it's not paid, it's not advertising, right? But what is it? Because I use the term earned media a lot and I should never assume that people know what that is. I was on a call with a prospective client and she said, “Well, what do you mean when you say earned media?” So then, I mean, in my head, I'm seeing the PESO model, of course, by Spin Sucks’ Gini Dietrich.
Allen Murphy: She was a guest of ours, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michelle Garrett: So, I really appreciate and I use that model, of course, giving proper credit where credit is due for that. But I use it in talks because in my head, when I talk to clients, I'm seeing paid, shared, owned. I usually look at it as owned and earned and then we look at shared as social and then perhaps paid. I don't do as much on the paid side with clients, admittedly, but I do think that is a robust strategy. And I think Gini and I have had that conversation-the focus on the owned first and then kind of move to earned. But it's not a perfect world with a lot of clients. So, I mean, you do what you can. And my favorite clients are the ones that trust me and allow me to maybe educate them a little bit, or maybe they already understand. And that's why we're working together because they know that I'm focused on those things and that's what they need and want.
Allen Murphy: Yeah, building and earning that trust with your clients so that they will listen to your insights and respect the experience that you're bringing to the table there-that has to be such an important part of what you do. Because without that, it might just go in one ear and out the other entirely, in which case that was just a waste of everybody's time.
Caroline Cullinan: Would you have any advice for someone who maybe has been put in that position where they don't really know how to pitch journalists, or maybe they're sending out a lot of pitches that look the same? Would you have any advice on how to pitch media relations and how to get your clients' work in front of those journalists?
Michelle Garrett: I do have advice and I will share some of it. I did write about it in the book as well, because I really feel like sometimes when I was starting out and I identify with newer, younger PR pros and sometimes I talk to students and PR students interview me for their class. I understand that they don't have the confidence maybe to push back on ideas like, “Well, let's just see how many pitches we can send out this month. Something's bound to land, right?” So, we're just going to spam out thousands of pitches randomly to these journalists-who know what publications they write for or what they write about. Instead of doing that, though, what I have learned and found is that if you focus in, you don't need thousands of journalists on your list. You probably need-I'm going to speak on the B2B side-a focused list of 20 or 25, maybe and you really focus in on those folks, right? So you have to do research to find out where the prospects are spending time. Where is the audience spending time? Then you build the list. Then you figure out the best person at the publication or media outlet. And then you really focus on tailored pitches-not the same pitch for everybody on the list all the time. Now, sometimes if you have an announcement you brought in a new CEO, you've got a new product to launch, or whatever-you might end up sending a similar pitch to those people. But otherwise, in between those times, you're going to be looking for ideas that are going to appeal to that particular editor or reporter. What do they write about? What does their audience care about?
Allen Murphy: And really tailoring those pitches and making them personalized to those to whom you're pitching is so important for maintaining that relationship in the long term-not just for the purposes of that story that you're putting out there but knowing that there's going to be more stories in the future and future announcements. And that you really want this person to write about it-giving it that tailored, personalized touch has got to be so important for maintaining that relationship in the long term.
Michelle Garrett: It really is. And what I have found and again, it's obviously, you know, I love to work with clients over a period of time. Right. So no more I don't work with a lot of one offs anymore because I want a client to, to give me, you know, I obviously I don't demand that they stay with me for so many of time, but the more time we spend together, the more results that they are probably going to see and the more I'm going to understand, because I do ghostwrite for the executives, I'm going to understand their voice. I'm going to understand their messages. And what I have seen, too, is that with relationships with the editors, they will come to me asking for a spokesperson, a thought leader from a client, because they know that that person has been a good source for them in the past. And so instead of even having to pitch them, they proactively come to us because they know, you know, they're going to be able to supply a customer reference that we can talk to you for this story, or they're going to be able to give us a subject matter expert that has 15 minutes to answer a few questions so we can add their comments to this piece. So that's the kind that's really to me, that is truly success.
Allen Murphy: That's the dream. Yeah.
Pat O’Rourke: Yeah. Our local and I think actually a couple different PRSA chapters have done it, but I went to the Chicago PRSA Meet the Media event. And one of the biggest things that was really kind of eye-opening for me, one of my biggest takeaways from it, was building a relationship with those reporters that you are reaching out to. Don't just look at it as a business transaction where it's just, “I'm pitching you a story, I'm pitching the story, I'm pitching the story,” because there are people, too. So, when you have that and you build that relationship, you do those kinds of reach-outs where it's just, “Hey, just checking in to see if you need anything,” whatever. You build those relationships. So exactly to your point, they know that, okay, we can go to this person, or we can reach out if we need something and it becomes a mutual relationship instead of a one-sided “I just need something from you.” Like, I'm just going to take and take. And I think that was just an eye-opener for me. And, you know, obviously my job is not reaching out in that way per se, but it helps me to speak to people in this realm who are PR professionals and be able to kind of give these nuggets of advice. And it just makes sense with everything that you're saying right now.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, they trust you. So, it's not just a transactional type of relationship. And there are reporters that you get to know. I mean, even you know-you know a little bit about them personally. I'm not saying you should stalk reporters like that. Yeah. Don't do that. But it's fine to exchange pleasantries, or, you know, if they have pets or kids or where they went to school. I think that it’s fine overtime if you get to know them a little bit, because, again, yes, I think people are always going to prefer to work with those they know, like and trust. And I don't think it's any difference between a PR professional and a reporter. So, right.
Pat O’Rourke: I have one really important question that we did not get to earlier. You mentioned the book, but where can you buy the book? Like, is it on your website, a local bookstore? I want to make sure.
Michelle Garrett: Amazon. It was a bestseller in the PR category on Amazon when it came out. And yeah, you can get it at Bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble-it’s available online anywhere you would buy books.
Pat O’Rourke: Fantastic. Listen, I'm always about putting out the product, you know, in a little plug.
Allen Murphy: Oh yeah. You said you didn't want to plug in your book-we will happily do it for you. We’ve got no problem with that.
Pat O’Rourke: That's what this is about.
Allen Murphy: I know there's so much more that people can learn from the book and they should check it out. But for the purposes of this podcast, with people having listened to this conversation, to kind of nicely put a bow on everything, if there was one idea that you would like listeners to walk away with, some sort of lesson or takeaway that you think would be helpful for people in this world-what would you like them to take away today?
Michelle Garrett: Well, I would say make sure that you work with people who know how to get you where you want to go. And that is not always using an AI tool to do everything, right? Don't forget that human talent is really important to what we do. And again, back to relationships that matter as well. I'm not saying you should base everything on those, but I do think the ability to build relationships, to understand how reporters like to work, their deadlines-yes, they want to look to sources that they trust. So be that source and they will come back to you. And that is the kind of relationship that will lead to the results you're looking for.
Allen Murphy: I love that. Fantastic. Michelle, thank you so much for your time today. We would love to have you back sometime in the future for other episodes, but I really do just want to thank you for taking the time to have this conversation and share a lot of the takeaways from your knowledge and experience with our audience. So once more, thank you very much for your time.
Michelle Garrett: Thank you.
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